Pasquale D'Amuro is the new Assistant Director of the New York FBI Office, the largest of the Bureau’s 56 field offices. He granted an exclusive interview to Aramica.
How do you view your relationship with the Arab-American community?
Going back several years, we’ve had meetings with the community to make sure we keep the relationship on track. It’s not about religion for the FBI. It is about a twisted form of religion for the radical that wants to use a very peaceful religion and try to make it something it isn’t, to come at us. We’ve reached out to the communities and we will continue to do so when we feel there’s information we need to pass along or to collect from them. We’re all living on the same piece of land here and we expect citizens of this country – when they have information that could prevent a terrorist attack – to provide that information.
We’re not the lead organization on immigration violations. That’s not what the FBI does. We investigate counterterrorism. I understand that some immigration violations might prevent people from coming forward and providing us with information, and this is when we ask the community leaders to step in and try to work out those situations with the individuals so that if they do have important information, we get it.
There is a sentiment in the community that the communication is one-sided. You answer questions, but at the end of the day, you want information. You don’t address the needs of the community.
Our mission is to collect intelligence and information regarding potential terrorist acts. We have a tremendous job to do. We can’t come out and answer questions every day. We’re out there trying to prevent the next terrorist attacks. I’ll be honest with you. I expect citizens of this country to provide that information. I don’t think we need to hold hands to ask for that information.
We do come out, we do try to answer questions to the best of our ability and give whatever information we can possibly provide. I don’t think it’s wrong to ask for information that is relevant for intelligence collection from citizens who live in these communities.
How many Arab Americans are working in the FBI in New York and New Jersey? There was talk about trying to recruit more. How is this going?
We don’t discuss the numbers we have of individuals of a particular descent or language ability. That’s confidential information. But the effort continues to find individuals who have Arabic-language ability and the background to understand where some of the mindset of the radical fundamentalists is coming from. There is information on our website about joining the FBI. We have not had the numbers we hoped for.
Why don’t you have an Arabic-speaking agent going to events?
Because we use them for operations matters. If you have someone involved in operations, you need to be very careful. Operations is the most important aspect of what agents do. There is a reason why we don’t have some of these individuals seen in the public. I’ll leave it at that.
Why are there so many individuals who are being arrested and then released? Take, for example, the people in Detroit who were just released on the Department of Justice’s order.
There’s a very aggressive posture on the part of the FBI to try and prevent the next terrorist attack. We have investigations where we have information that individuals affiliate with terrorist organizations. Wherever we have that, you will see an aggressive prosecution.
There is the legal process in this country to make sure that somebody is being tried justly and that enough evidence is there to convict them.
The Bureau is very cautious as to who we look at. There are reasons why we look at those individuals the way we do and conduct those investigations. There is oversight on the FBI to make sure we don’t overstep our bounds. We have oversight by the Department of Justice, the Inspector General, by our own Internal Affairs, by the courts, by the intelligence community and the Joint Intelligence Committee in Washington. There are going to be some situations when, because of that aggressive posture, people are going to criticize you. Sometimes they’ll be right, sometimes, they won’t. That’s why the court is there to determine someone’s guilt.
The problem is that when the operation goes into a criminal proceeding, I’m barred from discussing it. That’s why I can’t go into specifics about Detroit because, one, it’s still pending, and two, because I don’t have the specific factual information regarding that investigation.
What is the situation in New York regarding terrorist cells?
You have some individuals where you see prosecutions going on now because of their affiliation with known terrorists. You will continue to see intelligence collected and disseminated. There are individuals here in this area about whose connections with terrorist groups we’re concerned. The investigations are going to continue. This is the number one mission of the FBI – to prevent the next terrorist attack.
Are there fanatics in the Arab-American community in the tri-state area?
We do have investigations of individuals and their affiliations with certain groups that we feel have a terrorist nexus. I guess the answer would be yes because we’re conducting those investigations.
One of the problems we have with international terrorism is that it’s more than just Al Qaeda. There are groups like Al Jama’a Islamiyya and Ansar Al Islam. There are other organizations out there that have an anti-United States sentiment and there is enough concern that these groups are desirous of attacking the United States both here and abroad. Because of that, the intelligence collection is no longer just Al Qaeda. It’s all the other groups that have had an affiliation with Al Qaeda or a desire to harm the United States, like Hezbollah.
Can you draw a map of terrorism networks throughout the world? It seems to be increasing rather than decreasing.
What you’re seeing is much more recognition and many more tools being used to combat terrorism. Prior to 9/11, the US government did not desire using all of its tools to combat terrorism – military action, covert action, sanctions, diplomacy. The tools that were being used prior to 9/11 were law enforcement and intelligence services. Since 9/11, all the tools are being employed by the US to combat terrorism and now you’re seeing the connections of Al Qaeda.
It was this Joint Terrorism Task Force here that first identified the tentacles of Al Qaeda reaching into Europe – in Germany and in the UK. We’ve worked very closely with our partners prior to and after the bombing in East Africa, providing information to those countries who are now finding terrorist elements existing throughout the world.
Bombings in Saudi Arabia and Jordan, cells in Lebanon, an attack in Syria; the trains in Madrid, now a school in Russia - are they all Al Qaeda?
No, they’re different organizations. Some have affiliations with Al Qaeda. But yes, you are seeing terrorism around the world. Go to Indonesia, you have Al Jama’a Islamiyya. You’ve got Ansar Al Islam in the northern Kurdish area. Is terrorism on the rise? It was. We have a long way to go. It’s not going to end in the next year or two. Lay out a map? It’s global.
With the aggressive war on terrorism, why hasn’t Zirqawi or bin Laden been caught?
I can’t answer that question because I don’t know of all the efforts being done. I can only tell you from what I do know that the efforts of the government are extensive in trying to capture those individuals. We have FBI operations running globally. I can tell you that there are high value targets the military is working on capturing. The FBI is working with the military and the rest of the intelligence community on capturing those individuals.
355 individuals have been criminally charged in the US with terrorist investigations. How many of those were Arab Americans?
I really don’t know. We collect information. When it’s enough to arrest someone, we do that. There is a judge who oversees that and a jury will make the determination.
You have removed 515 individuals who were linked to 9/11. What does it mean to “remove” them? Were they incarcerated elsewhere?
If there are individuals who were involved with counterterrorism investigations or if they were involved with connections to counterterrorism, we bring them to justice. When you conduct an investigation and Immigration finds that someone is out of status, Immigration has the responsibility of bringing that to their courts. We’re responsible for telling Immigration when we do find someone out of status. But the Bureau is not responsible for bringing those cases forward.
A woman from California who threatened to bomb Boeing Aircraft and mailed them an envelope with white powder was arrested recently by the FBI. Why do you think we haven’t heard more about that?
I am not familiar with that case. I don’t know why the media isn’t reporting more about that.
Do you think if her name was Fatima we would hear more about her?
(Annoyed) The FBI doesn’t do that. That’s the media. That’s an unfair question. I think what you’re trying to get me to say that we hype up more about investigations in the Arab community than we do with people like Barbara Cox. That’s not true. I don’t tell the media what to report. I don’t control the media.
Am I being unfair?
I think you’re trying to give the FBI a lot more responsibility than what we really have. We have a job to do. We’re trying to do that by reaching out to the community. We know from past investigations that there is a reason we try to do it this way. Are there going to be bumps in the road? Sure. We don’t tell the media what to do. We don’t push the issues. Are the media more interested in reporting issues with Middle Easterners? It appears they may be. But I don’t see why you’re trying to attach that blame to the FBI.
Because of the way news is communicated to the media from the FBI.
(Irate) How is the news communicated? Because we didn’t have a press conference about Barbara Cox? I understand your point. We do press conferences on organized crime. In the last 7 months, I have given press conferences on organized crime and the media is there. How many do you read about? There are extensive efforts made in regards to organized crime. But again, the media decides what to do.
How did the 9/11 Report affect the FBI?
The Bureau is trying to go forward and make necessary changes we feel we’ve needed to make, with respect to information technology and sharing intelligence. Prior to 9/11 there were legal restrictions placed on the FBI about disseminating information. We had to have agents sign affidavits swearing they wouldn’t share information. The intelligence agents couldn’t talk to agents conducting criminal investigations, etc. They were required by law to perform in a certain way and they did that. The PATRIOT Act removed those barriers...it is something that was long overdue and has been very helpful as far as us sharing intelligence with the entire intelligence community regarding terrorism.
In my opinion, it would be an error to try and create new intelligence collection organizations because it will take years before those organizations are operational. You can’t duplicate the collection capabilities of the FBI overnight. When we conduct counterterrorism investigations and intelligence collection investigations, we move quickly to prevent a terrorist attack when that intelligence indicates a crime has taken place. It makes more sense to me that those authorities rest in one organization. And the way we do that is through the Joint [Anti-]Terrorism Task Force with all the different organizations participating under our roof so we can collect intelligence.
The beauty of this is there’s oversight to make sure the FBI doesn’t overstep its collection responsibilities. We are bound by the Constitution and we have those oversights there to make sure we don’t go beyond. Creating separate internal intelligence organizations – what will they look like, what laws will they have to abide by? I think it would be a mistake for this country to move down that road and, for the most part, most of the country and the 9/11 Commission agreed with that.
The 9/11 Report said that in the ’93 attack on the WTC, the NY FBI field office “...set the pattern for future management of terrorist incidents.” How did you do that?
It was this particular office that, through that initial terrorist attack, began to find the underlying international terrorism aspect of individuals who wanted to start conducting attacks against this country. This was when we first identified Osama bin Laden actually trying to raise money and Mujahedin fighters from a mosque in this country that had some radical ties. An investigation was undertaken called Tear Stop. That investigation was the blind sheikh and the plan to bomb the tunnels, the UN, and Federal Plaza.
There was an investigation by this office into Ramzi Youssef who was involved in trying to blow up 11 jumbo jets over the Pacific Ocean by putting explosive material into the body cavities of dogs. This office has long had a history of conducting counterterrorism investigations and the first one showing the extent and where we really
began being aggressive in the international arena was the ‘93 bombing of the WTC.
What last thoughts would you like to share with the community?
We are asking them to work with us.
Are they not working with you?
They are, but I can tell from this interview that you have some mistrust towards the FBI. I’ve been working in this job for 25 years. This is a great organization. We work very hard to make sure we protect the rights of the citizens of this country. Arabs and Muslims who are members of this country have nothing to fear from the FBI.
If you’re out of status, you need to resolve that because there’s nothing I can do. When we have an arrest warrant from Immigration, we are compelled to find that person. There will continue to be people looking for people who are out of status. That is not the FBI’s role but if you have immigration problems, you need to get it fixed. I don’t see that going away.
If you are helpful, we will go to Immigration - and we have done this many times - to make a recommendation to keep you here. Usually that’s successful. I can’t tell you that it will always be successful but we try to work with the communities with respect to those issues.
It’s important to understand that this is not about the FBI being against the Arab American community. This is about the FBI being against terrorism.
